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I really appreciate the guides in the Academia for different units. They are quite helpful reference material and best of all they are short and to the point. (At least, the overview at the start of them)
I was wondering if it would be possible to get some kind of informative guide which would briefly cover some basic decision making and strategy.
For example here are some questions I have:
What logic do you use to decide whether to send warriors?
What logic on whether to send 2?
Likewise for 3, 4, and when to just up king.
When you have more than one unit in your roll that could be used equally well, how do you decide which to build? For example: gnoll, archer, ice troll, mudman, wyvern, yggdrasil. How can I decide if I should do EA yolo or yggs? Specifically what should I pay attention to in my teammates rolls and chosen builds?
How do you decide whether to send BOs or furmit on a wave like 4, 5, 6? When do you send BOs on 7? When do you send pudges on 10? 14?
When should you send 12?
When is it worth to have 1 holder, 2 holders, no holders?
When is it worth to suicide the lane? How can you know if a lane is not recoverable?
Clearly many of these topics come with experience, but that’s why I’m asking that people with experience could try to share their insight in a digestible way for players like me who struggle with a lot of these choices.
I might be able to come up with some more questions if it’s helpful, or to ask them more specifically if that was. Hopefully this seems worth putting energy towards. 🙂
I realize this post is a bit old, but hopefully you will see this. I will try my best to answer all of your questions, but mostly as you said it comes with experience and analyzing a lot of factors. I will talk briefly on my PERSONAL thought process and logic to all your questions.
What logic do you use to decide whether to send warriors?
Obviously you never want to send less than 8 warriors. Secondly, the consideration is how many of your teammates can push after the send. If you have lanes like blaster and clock unless you have a huge goal on lv 1 it is unlikely they can push that extra 3/0 wisp. If you are sending wars it means you either want to slow the game down, or you want to bait a send.
The big considerations I would say are:
Do your lanes have good push potential after the war send?
Do you have someone to cover lv 2 if your send fails OR if it succeeds and enemy has potential to send blood orcs on lv 2.
What logic on whether to send 2? Likewise for 3, 4, and when to just up king.
Does someone on your team need income for their build?
Depending on your teams push, are you able to send blood orcs on lv 3? (assuming enemy does not send on lv 2). If I cannot send at least 2-3 blood orcs on lv 3, I don’t call a send there.
Many people will go with “fast kill speed = send 2, slow kill speed = send 3”. I personally don’t like this logic because 90% of the players cannot track the difference between ygg/seagiant kill speed from Lv 1 anyway.
Honestly calls like lv 4 are just up to gut feeling. The main consideration I always like to make is, if my send fails can I hold the enemies counter attack? If your 4 send is a success, enemy will want to retaliate as soon as possible, so consider your anti 5 and anti 7 as a result.
If you have a lot of lanes that will overbuild or can’t effectively yolo, then 4x regen and send 7 or king – 10 is usually a good call. Forces a fast game which is to your benefit if your lanes cannot yolo.
When you have more than one unit in your roll that could be used equally well, how do you decide which to build? For example: gnoll, archer, ice troll, mudman, wyvern, yggdrasil. How can I decide if I should do EA yolo or yggs? Specifically what should I pay attention to in my teammates rolls and chosen builds?
If your choice is between ygg and ea, check to see if your team has a holder. If you have ea, ygg and wyv and your team has no holder for lv 7 OR lv 10, then maybe starting ygg and switching into wyvs for lv 10 is the best play. Always look at what your team is lacking. The current meta places a lot of importance on Lv 10 and Lv 15. Always work towards best way to hold that (assuming you got the roll for it and your team does not).
How do you decide whether to send BOs or furmit on a wave like 4, 5, 6? When do you send BOs on 7? When do you send pudges on 10? 14?
Unless they have a unit that is specifically weak against auras (blaster and magnataur on Lv 5 will 2 hit vs furb) I typically go with strongest send possible ( which is usually bo).
If enemy is trying to overbuild for hold, BO is always the best way to break a holder. Biggest consideration is the amount of wood you have. If you are low on wood then sometimes you must focus on sending auras 1x furb and 1x hermit per lane is mandatory for Lv 7 if you plan to send to break them.
If enemy has a lot of AOE units or squishy pierce (necro, spitters,) and you have the wood (600-700 wood minimum when Lv 9 creeps spawn) pudge is the right call.
When should you send 12?
If the enemy has stomp or immo and 2 or less heals, and bad units on Lv 12. This also means you have to skip 10 and must have decent bank/push. 1.5k – 2k wood per lane when Lv 11 creeps spawn is a decent 12 send.
If you are sending 12, it means you are either behind in heals or don’t feel confident winning on 15 because enemy is strong that lv. Lv 12 requires planning and setup from as early as Lv 7 (need 2 lanes to push, and most likely 1-2 mids on 10 depending if you can spare the heals or not)
When is it worth to have 1 holder, 2 holders, no holders?
It will always depend on the rolls that you have, and how much each of the holders plan to push. If I have a ygg with mermaid (3 ygg, upped mermaid) for lv 7, it is one of the best 7 holds in the game so you dont really need to plan for 2 full holds. Especially need to consider if you expect the enemy to send or not
When is it worth to suicide the lane? How can you know if a lane is not recoverable?
If your team has anti 15 and you do not (or you have the “worst” anti 15 roll of your team) then you should plan to suicide / or go leaker for 11+. Remember that not all leakers have to “suicide”. It is 100% possible to be 7/7 on 10 and still hold 11+ or pro leak if required. Main thing to know is how best you can help your team. If you have guys who have good anti 10 and anti 15 units then you can reasonably expect that you should push and prepare to be the leaker.
The other thing is if your lane gets fucked early ( lv 1 -6 ) and it forces you to be 4/1 on lv 5 just to barely clear your line for exmaple. No hold and no push = no good. Must be one or the other. If you can’t hold, then push.
I could write an essay to discuss most of your questions in depth as there are so many factors involved when making calls. To put it simply, always look at how you can best support your team. Understanding what that means is really going to come down to experience and probably getting yelled at once or twice 😀
Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. 🙂
From your answers to the first two questions, my understanding is basically this:
A team with good push wants a slow game because they are weak early but will scale from the income.
A team with bad push wants a fast game because they are strong early but will not scale as well.
However my observations are that both types of teams almost always will send 10 and will need to up king. It’s pretty rare in my experience to see a game where one team does not send 10 and also rare for a team to get away without upgrading king. As such, I do not understand how the team with bad push has the advantage in terms of how will they win on 10 exactly? If they go 4 regen, I can assume they will not spend any more lumber until around wave 5 when they decide to send 7 or not. If they decide not to send 7, my guess is they will upgrade king some more unless they are sure they have a very strong 7 (such as your example of 3 ygg mermaid) and a very strong 10 (idk maybe hades necro?) so I don’t think I quite understand how the bad push team intends to win on 10? Maybe you can clear this up a bit for me.
In my example draft, I was curious what you would look for more specifically. I’ll give you 3 fake teammate rolls and see if you could give me your logic on what to do in that specific case, but if you could also write more about the logic process behind what constitutes a good ally holder etc that would be helpful.
(Assume if it’s a bad roll then they already rerolled as many times as is reasonable)
Teammate 1: Colt, Spitter, Bottom Feeder, Medicine Man, Harlot, DhawkTeammate 2: Parrot, Aqua, Sprite, Mermaid, Alchemist, Firelord
Teammate 3: Orc Warrior, Egg Sack, Phantom, Polar Bear, Wyvern, Firelord
You reasonably answered the question about holders, except I’m not sure if I understand when you think it’s the right idea to have nobody building as holder? Let’s say for example you have a team with everyone rolling a good yolo unit such as Aqua and the best holder style unit anyone got was just a harlot. (maybe this is unrealistic, idk) Would you recommend that everyone just do aquas in this case? Are you going to do a lot of king or only when needed?
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