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Your Warcraft III username: Stinkypez
Ban reason: Flaming
Why you should be unbanned:I’ll start out by apologizing for the fact that I honestly didn’t realize Tepa was someone’s mentee. Yes I’m in the mentor channel, but I don’t pay much attention to it unless I’m tagged. That’s my own fault for not taking time to keep up with the program and i’ll try to do better. My mentee has been very easy so I haven’t found much reason to keep up as things are going well.
Tepa happened to be Mustard’s mentee and Mustard had been working hard to get him up to speed. I already reached out to Mustard and apologized, and I’ve attempted to contact Tepa on bnet to try and apologize in the event I truly was the actual reason he left the server. I didn’t feel I flamed hard enough for him to leave. I’ll work on getting him back in the server if you really feel like he’d be a good asset to the league. But from what I’ve seen thus far, his play has been sub-par. And to be blunt, he’s a grown man who should be able to take being called a “bot” and to handle some caps lock. Come on…
In my defense, I feel this is another instance where I really don’t think I was flaming and the claims are yet again unsupported. Yeah I called the dude a bot and asked him to actually cast his spells (I’m not exaggerating, he really did a poor job at casting his spells, sometimes didn’t even cast any when they were off cd). But a 72 hour ban for this seems really unnecessary. I think the underlying issue here is that Mustard feels the “stern” talking I gave to Tepa is what ultimately led him to leaving the server. There is, once again, zero evidence that I’M the reason he left the server, and I think Mustard is basing his ban on this assumption. Perhaps Tepa left on his own terms?
I’ve played a couple games with Tepa and he’s played pretty poorly. In this last game I played with him, he hardly communicated with the team. This lack of communication can be really annoying in a team-oriented game. Had the guy humbly asked for some help or even acted like he cared, I think things would have been different. This is all he said the entire game:
00:20 Allies Tepa -cam 1.4
0:23 Allies Tepa -water red
0:30 Allies Tepa -terrain reddungeon
1:25 Allies Tepa for the fb men
3:16 Allies Tepa are u sure clock?
3:58 Allies Tepa sayed 2 1 2
12:10 Allies Tepa buying grebas
19:40 Allies Tepa -gg
23:38 Allies Tepa smoke in courierBecause I was the other support trying to coordinate with him, to ultimately get no responses, i think that justifies some of my anger.
I think there are some lessons from this that perhaps we can implement to avoid issues moving forward:
1) Set proper expectations for these trials. We’re a highly competitive league with a passion for the game. If FBG want’s to be the top league to play dota 1, I think the expectations should rightfully be high and that trials should have a full understanding of what they are getting themselves into. Severe flame is of course never justified, but one SHOULD expect some “stern motivation” in the heat of the moment. Flaming happens in any team sport when someone is dropping the ball. Dota isn’t any different. And, whether we like it or not, this is the reality of our community.
2) Perhaps we set in-game mentors for all trials? Captains can or admins can assign an in-game mentor, and the mentee should expect to follow direction and communicate with the in-game mentor throughout the game. This might help keep the mentee focused on ONE person the entire game, but it would also keep some of the burden on them to try their best. If the mentee fails to communicate or follow direction, then it’s on them. I would have gladly helped the guy if he asked for it. Instead, I felt ignored as his fellow support player and became frustrated as a result.
3) I think some of these bans lately have been very unfair. The ban I had a couple days ago turned out to be an over-reaction by the admin team. Even when I probed and asked for actual evidence for that ban, the admin team was unable to supply. They just muted me when I asked questions, and ignored my DM’s. As a loyal league member, I think it’s fair for me to ask that the admin team work on bringing more clarity to bans and supply sufficient evidence. I think tonight’s ban in particular ban was petty by Mustard. While I understand and empathize with his frustration for the hard work he put into Tepa, I think it was petty to just assume I was the main reason for his departure. Maybe he just felt overwhelmed? Maybe he wasn’t enjoying himself? Maybe it was a series of events that lead up to it. I don’t know, and frankly, neither does Mustard. Perhaps supplying proof that I was the reason (like personally asking Tepa and getting a response like, “Pez flamed me too hard”) would be fair to long-standing league members such as myself so that these ban’s don’t feel so petty.
I hope my tone came across alright. I’m truly just trying to help offer some solutions to this problem, but also defend myself as I don’t think this ban was justified. I’ve been part of the league for almost 4 years, and I’ve said time-and-time again that I gladly eat bans where I know I did wrong. I feel this isn’t one of those times.
Thanks dudes.
Starting out apologizing means you do realize you did something wrong which is good to know and I hope that means you will avoid doing it again in the future. As far as the mentor stuff, it takes 5 seconds to check the pinned list of assigned mentors and trials, and the channel is there for cross referencing progress and assessment so if you want to take it seriously I would try to keep up.
Tepa was indeed my mentee which is why I took the time to try to figure out why he would leave. His interactions with everyone else in the server had been pretty good and he was trying to learn. So I looked back to see the last game he played and the players involved then checked to see if anyone was talking about him after the game in discord. I found you saying this.
Stinkypez — Today at 5:54 PM
man who vouched for estabanStinkypez — Today at 5:54 PM
that dude is fucking horrible rofl
he didnt even cast his spellsStinkypez — Today at 5:55 PM
you guys didnt stand a chance if our dazzle used grave more than 3x that gameStinkypez — Today at 5:56 PM
@Esteban Gonzalez 2111 are you here?
we need an explanation broI then watched the entire game to see if he was not trying or not. He was making mistakes, but he was also listening and trying which is what we ask of newer players. He misunderstood the lanes, but listened when told where to go and throughout the game was playing with the team. The game overall was a lost game, but was hardly due to the failings of the pos 5 dazzle and a disproportionate amount of blame was given to him especially given that you were not playing well either.
tepa#11231 1, 9, 6, 8
stinkypez#11869 1, 9, 5, 800:55 Allies Stinkypez why did you get poison first
00:56 Allies Stinkypez rofl
03:47 Allies Stinkypez what is this bot doing
14:06 Allies Stinkypez can you
14:07 Allies Stinkypez cast
14:09 Allies Stinkypez a spell
14:09 Allies Stinkypez tepa
19:12 Allies Stinkypez tahbtg grave
19:13 Allies Stinkypez rofl
19:18 Allies Stinkypez HEAL
19:20 All Stinkypez YO
19:22 All Stinkypez THIS DAZZLE
19:37 Allies Stinkypez -gg
25:23 Allies Stinkypez CAST
25:24 Allies Stinkypez A SPELL
25:26 Allies Stinkypez PLEASE
25:41 Allies Stinkypez im so tilted right now
26:01 Allies Stinkypez estaban do we need to call you by your name for you to respond to us
30:31 All Stinkypez yo this tepa
30:34 All Stinkypez who vouched for this guy
31:45 Allies Stinkypez yeah just let it end
32:13 Allies Stinkypez tepa playing like a bot
32:17 Allies Stinkypez dudes not even talkingEnglish is not his first language and you can’t be expected to know that which is fine, but this is not how you talk to someone you want a response from. I am not sure what kind of response you were hoping for that would have been productive talking like this. He did the other things you asked of him, but your team was getting snowballed anyway and I don’t think him responding changes that. And to be blunt a grown man should be able to stay calm and use their words respectfully in a game, but onto your lessons to learn points.
1) I have given probably a couple hundred trial talks at this point to many different players with many different understandings of the game. I try to be as thorough as possible and stop to confirm that they understand what I am telling them. Something I always include towards the end is that there will be flame and criticism and to try not to take it too seriously, but I can’t regulate their emotions or how they will respond to it. I do my best to give them all the information they need to integrate into our games, but I can’t make them follow the advice or truly know how well they take the information in. Ideally they would not have to deal with the unnecessary flame in the first place, but action is taken when they are hence the ban.
2) Mentoring is a volunteer activity and if there are mentors present in the game then I would hope they are willing to help the newer players. You for example are a mentor and were in the game with a trial on your team and had the opportunity to try to help him. I think the general expectation is that a team will try to help players who need it as it is needed and requested. Giving advice and direction is an option for players in every game as long as they do it in a constructive manner.
3) Your first ban was perhaps unfair and it was undone and reduced to a warning for flaming. There was a general consensus of a persisting problem so you are right there wasn’t clarity in the evidence or reason, but the punishment didn’t match the crime so it was overturned, which seems fair enough to me as a final outcome. As far as me being petty about this, it was not a case of bias or me being overly upset you flamed my trial out of the server. As I outlined above I went through a fair process to determine what I thought had happened so yes it was a assumption that was at my discretion, but that is kind of my prerogative so if you feel it is petty maybe that says more about how you feel about me than I feel about you. I have since reached out to tepa so I can give you the clarity you need though in the attached file. The “he” referred to in the screenshot was TaZr who has been warned for his part. Tepa left because he was being blamed for the loss though which was perpetuated by you. I hope that is clear enough for you. Appeal denied.
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