Balance changes 6.86

[M4ster]

Hey all, I am here to suggest these balance changes for the next version for FBG. Note that these changes are from the official 6.86 version https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Version_6.86 which I’ve taken the most important parts of that we need + some extra changes in the end that I feel like they should be debated here that are already fixed in future versions:

Lucifer:
-Scorched Earth damage/heal reduced from 12/23/34/45 to 10/20/30/40
-Scorched Earth movement speed bonus from 16% to 14%
-Doom cooldown increased from 100 to 125

Alchemist
-Greevil’s Greed Bounty Rune minimap icon.png Bounty Rune multiplier rescaled from 5x to 3/4/5/6x
-Fixed Greevil’s Greed granting full gold during Buyback gold penalty phase

Batrider
-Base HP regeneration increased from 0.25 to 2
-Flamebreak mana cost reduced from 140 to 110/120/130/140

Bounty Hunter
-Jinada movement and attack speed reduction increased from 25% to 25/27/29/31%

Earth spirit
-Geomagnetic Grip can now only pull allied heroes when using Aghanim’s Scepter

Enigma
-Malefice damage increased from 25/40/55/70 to 30/50/70/90
-Black Hole cooldown reduced from 200/190/180 to 200/180/160

Gyrocopter
-Call Down’s first missile damage reduced from 250/300/350 to 220/285/350

Kunkka
-Tidebringer is now an autocast ability, will only trigger if turned on or cast directly on the target(
kunkas 2nd becomes togglable)
-Tidebringer damage bonus increased from 20/35/50/65 to 25/40/55/70

Luna
-Turn rate increased from 0.4 to 0.6
-Eclipse Aghanim’s Scepter icon.png Aghanim’s Scepter beam interval reduced from 0.6 to 0.3

Morphling
-Adaptive Strike base damage increased from 50/60/70/80 to 100
-Adaptive Strike mana cost reduced from 100 to 100/90/80/70
-Morph rate increased from 2/4/6/10 per second to 2/4/8/16

Oracle
-False Promise no longer continuously dispels after the initial cast(this means the ulted unit wont be perma bkb during ult)
-False Promise cooldown rescaled from 80/60/40 to 90/60/30

Rubick
-Fade Bolt attack damage reduction increased from 14/20/26/32 to 20/25/30/35

Slardar
-Corrosive Haze now only reveals the target rather than the area around it

Skywrath mage
-Concussive Shot mana cost reduced from 110 to 95

Storm spirit
-Electric Vortex mana cost reduced from 100/110/120/130 to 85

Undying
-Tombstone Zombie damage reduced from 35 to 33
-Tombstone bounty increased from 75/100/125/150 to 125/150/175/200

Skeleton King
-Vampiric Aura can now be toggled to make the lifesteal for heroes only

Items:

Cloak
-Magic resistance reduced from 20% to 15%

Boots of speed
-Cost reduced from 450 to 400
-Movement speed bonus reduced by 5

Bottle
-Cost reduced from 700 to 660
-Health regen per charge reduced from 110 to 90
-Mana regen per charge reduced from 70 to 60
-A charge now heals over 2.5 seconds instead of 3 seconds (total amount is still 90/60)

Hood of Defiance
-Hood of Defiance now has an active ability.
Creates a spell shield on your hero that absorbs up to 325 magical damage.
Duration: 12 seconds
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Mana cost: 75

Ring of Protection
-Cost reduced from 200 to 175
-Armor bonus reduced from 3 to 2

Smoke of Deceit
-Cost reduced from 100 to 50

Tranquil boots
-Tranquil Boots armor reduced from 4 to 3
-Movement speed bonus reduced by 5

Observer and sentry wards
-Can be merged in 1 slot

These were all the official changes of 6.86

Now for some unofficial ones everyone been asking for, I’ll post them here for debate:

-Terrorblade sunder range reduced to 300
-Poor man shield block chance reduce from 100% to 60%
-Necro ultimate nerf to +15 seconds death timer on level 1 instead of +30s
-Phoenix ray damage reduced
-Arc warden magnetic field( ennemy units inside the field should not miss attacks) and arc’s ulti clone should give 100 gold bounty on death.
-Sentry wards to be purchased 1 by 1 for 100g instead of 200g for 2
-Dust of appearance price reduced to 100g instead of 160 or 180 idk what it is.

Please feel free to discuss and give your opinion on all the above, this is just a suggestion post to help improve our map and make it more balanced/ add some variety.
Peace.

• This topic was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by M4ster.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by M4ster.

[PeachTree]

Kunkka nerf.

X marks the spot CD from 26/20/14/8 to 28/22/16/10

vote here https://www.strawpoll.me/20763651

edit: here is the 6.85 > 6.85 NE changelog so some of these might be alrdy nerfed in the past.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by PeachTree.

Attachments:

1. Changelog.txt

[PeachTree]

Medusa mana shield nerf

manashield absorbs 50% of the dmg instead of 60%

vote here https://www.strawpoll.me/20763892

[PeachTree]

PL str gain buff

from +1.7 per level to 2.1´per level

https://www.strawpoll.me/20763905

[PeachTree]

weaver’s swarn re-scale/nerf

from 4 needed attacks to break to 2/3/4/5 attacks to break

https://www.strawpoll.me/20763916

[PeachTree]

Pheonix ray dmg type from pure to magic dmg.

https://www.strawpoll.me/20764032

[PeachTree]

Thrall glimpse can no longer bring people back if they are on euls + some range nerf from 600/1000/1400/1800 to 600/900/1200/1500

https://www.strawpoll.me/20764051

[PeachTree]

Tuskar snowball MS from 650 to 500

https://www.strawpoll.me/20764145

[Fieryfox]

I agree with everything above except for:

Kunkka
-Tidebringer is now an autocast ability, will only trigger if turned on or cast directly on the target(
kunkas 2nd becomes togglable)
Reason: This is gay as fuck

Boots of speed
-Cost reduced from 450 to 400
-Movement speed bonus reduced by 5
Reason: This doesn’t seem necessary.

Bottle
-Cost reduced from 700 to 660
-Health regen per charge reduced from 110 to 90
-Mana regen per charge reduced from 70 to 60
-A charge now heals over 2.5 seconds instead of 3 seconds (total amount is still 90/60)
Reason: This doesn’t seem necessary.

-Terrorblade sunder range reduced to 300
Reason: Reduce it to 350 range, it is 550 range right now and 300 range seems a bit too heavy of a nerf.

-Dust of appearance price reduced to 100g instead of 160 or 180 idk what it is.
Reason: It is 180 right now and to get 2 dust of appearance charges for 100 gold is way too cheap. I would suggest a cost of 150.

weaver’s swarn re-scale/nerf
from 4 needed attacks to break to 2/3/4/5 attacks to break
Reason: Weaver swarm gives experience and gold (forgot how much xp, I think it was like 10 xp, not that much but still something on early levels). It gives between 30-40 gold. 2 attacks for lvl 1 is pretty useless imo. I would suggest a rescale of 4-attacks every level to 3/3/4/4. I am fine with changing the 4th level to 5 attacks as well but I dont see it as necessary yet.

My own balance change suggestions ON TOP OF the ones already mentioned:

Earthshaker
– Nerf the mana cost from Enchant Totem from 20/30/40/50 to 35/40/45/50.
Reason: It costs no mana on the early levels and it can be spammed easily while still doing significant dmg.

Slardar
– Nerf and rescale Slardar Sprint from 20/28/36/44% to 16/25/34/43%.
Reason: Slardar sprint at lvl 1 gives 70 movespeed extra if you have boots. It can outrun everyone and as pos 4 it is way too strong. It gives 60 movespeed without boots at lvl 1. The movespeed at lvl 4 is alright though, hence the rescale. I don’t want to nerf Slardar sprint too hard but changing from 20% to 16% might not even be enough, but it’s a start.

[Fieryfox]

It seems that Alchemist has already been nerfed in the ne series, so “-Greevil’s Greed Bounty Rune minimap icon.png Bounty Rune multiplier rescaled from 5x to 3/4/5/6x” doesn’t really apply.
This might be something that can be fixed: “-Fixed Greevil’s Greed granting full gold during Buyback gold penalty phase”, but since alche was nerfed in the ne series for quite a bit idk if it really matters.

Another suggestion I would like to make instead of the one m4ster made for Storm Spirit:

Storm Spirit
– Buff Ball Lightning to the way it was in 6.83.
Reason: Storm is not played often and I think it’s cus the hero is underpowered this version. M4ster already proposed a buff, but I think the real reason why storm is underpowered is because his ulti costs so much mana. In 6.83 storm was considered “op”, but I think that was because static remnant cost only 70 mana lvl 1, so you could spam it in lane. In 6.85 it is 100 mana each level. Storm’s Ball Lightning in 6.83 was also stronger than it is now in 6.85. I do not know what the values exactly were in 6.83 but they can be found in the map script. I would like to hear other people’s opinion about this suggestion though.

[Fieryfox]

I remembered that I had some more heroes that I think should get changed, but first let me say this. I believe that we shouldn’t make balance changes the way dota 2 does it, by buffing the underpowered heroes in every patch while keeping the overpowered heroes kinda the same. This invokes a powercreep, and, instead I believe that heroes should get nerfed and buffed around a standard.

Rikimaru
– Nerf Permanent Invisibility hp regen from 6/8/10/12 hp per sec while stealth to 4/6/8/10 hp per sec.
– Nerf Blink strike charges from 4/5/6 charges to 3/4/5 charges
Reason: The amount of blink strike charges riki has is too much imo. The hp regen nerf is because I feel like it’s too strong at the beginning.

Venomancer
– Nerf and rescale poison sting duration from 6/9/12/15 s to 6/8/10/12 s
– Nerf Venomeous gale tick damage from 10/40/70/100 to 0/30/60/90 damage over time
Reason: The poison sting duration is so fucking long that its very easy for venomancer to just 1 attack, ulti, then run away. His ulti is 16 sec so the poison sting almost covers the whole ulti duration. His plague wards also have poison sting for the same duratio and by nerfing the duration venomancer has a shorter time span to reapply this effect if he wants to keep sm1 poisoned.
As for his venomous gale tick damage… I think it’s too much damage and that’s why I suggest a small nerf for that. Note that Venomancer is a top pick in the fbg inhouse games.

Naga Siren
– Nerf and rescale Song of the Siren cooldown from 180/120/60 s to 180/130/80 s
Reason: It is very hard to gank a naga siren because his ulti cooldown is so ridiculously low at max lvl. I suggest a small rescale here because I dont want to nerf it too hard yet, however, I want to point out that a further nerf to maybe 180/140/100 s might be even better.
People don’t play naga siren often in FBG because they dont know how to play him correctly, however, there are some players that DO know how to play naga siren and they have shown that once naga has radiance and manta style he can be hard to find and with his low as fuck ulti cooldown he is also very hard to catch.

Lina
– Nerf base movement speed from 295 to 285
Reason: He is fast as fuck with his passive. With boots and lvl 1 Fiery Soul he gets +35 movespeed if he casts 2 spells (which is often the case). In the early game this 35 movespeed matters a lot and makes it very hard to outrun a lina (as any mid hero, maybe except for pugna).
I was also thinking of suggesting to nerf his attack range a bit (cus 670 is quite a lot), but I think I want to see the movespeed nerf first, since lina is not really a top-pick in FBG.

Ursa
– Nerf Enrage from 1.5/1.75/2x dmg multiplier to 1.5/1.65/1.8x dmg multiplier
Reason: Ursa is strong and I think he needs a slight nerf. This change also means that dmg items on ursa have more meaning.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Fieryfox.

[iliaa666]

atos
-make rootable, not decrease ms

visage
-make gargoyles stable damage

[DanishPride]

Here are my comments:

lucifer:
-Scorched Earth damage/heal reduced from 12/23/34/45 to 10/20/30/40
-Scorched Earth movement speed bonus from 16% to 14%
-Doom cooldown increased from 100 to 125

Agree

Alchemist
-Greevil’s Greed Bounty Rune minimap icon.png Bounty Rune multiplier rescaled from 5x to 3/4/5/6x
-Fixed Greevil’s Greed granting full gold during Buyback gold penalty phase

Agree

Batrider
-Base HP regeneration increased from 0.25 to 2
-Flamebreak mana cost reduced from 140 to 110/120/130/140

Agree

Bounty Hunter
-Jinada movement and attack speed reduction increased from 25% to 25/27/29/31%

Agree needs a slight buff

Earth spirit
-Geomagnetic Grip can now only pull allied heroes when using Aghanim’s Scepter

Agree this mechanic is to insane for free

Enigma
-Malefice damage increased from 25/40/55/70 to 30/50/70/90
-Black Hole cooldown reduced from 200/190/180 to 200/180/160

Agree needs slight buff

Gyrocopter
-Call Down’s first missile damage reduced from 250/300/350 to 220/285/350

Agree needs slight nerf

Kunkka
-Tidebringer is now an autocast ability, will only trigger if turned on or cast directly on the target(
kunkas 2nd becomes togglable)
-Tidebringer damage bonus increased from 20/35/50/65 to 25/40/55/70

This is okay tbh. Kunkka is under utilized as a core and it´s to easy to play around cleave. But two nerfs needs to be done to x mark:
1. Eul´s needs to dispel it both on allied and enemy heroes. (It is considered a bug in my book, that you can´t dispel x mark on enemies).
2. Increase x mark cd as Peach suggested

Luna
-Turn rate increased from 0.4 to 0.6
-Eclipse Aghanim’s Scepter icon.png Aghanim’s Scepter beam interval reduced from 0.6 to 0.3

Slight buff is fine, but I think a minor buff to stat gain is better.

Morphling
-Adaptive Strike base damage increased from 50/60/70/80 to 100
-Adaptive Strike mana cost reduced from 100 to 100/90/80/70
-Morph rate increased from 2/4/6/10 per second to 2/4/8/16

In need of a buff

Oracle
-False Promise no longer continuously dispels after the initial cast(this means the ulted unit wont be perma bkb during ult)
-False Promise cooldown rescaled from 80/60/40 to 90/60/30

Very much needed nerf

Rubick
-Fade Bolt attack damage reduction increased from 14/20/26/32 to 20/25/30/35
Needs a bit further buffs perhaps +10 ms

Slardar
-Corrosive Haze now only reveals the target rather than the area around it

Agreed

Skywrath mage
-Concussive Shot mana cost reduced from 110 to 95

Agreed:
Suggestion change aghanim’s scepter from cd reduction on ulti. To the one from dota 2:
Cast a second instance of the spell (not items) on a random enemy in range (heroes prioritized, but cannot target the same target as the spell was cast on).

Storm spirit
-Electric Vortex mana cost reduced from 100/110/120/130 to 85
Is in need of a buff this could be it, I think a slight buff (not entirely back to 6.83 imba level mana cost on ball lightning but a small, reduction to cast cost for instance).

Undying
-Tombstone Zombie damage reduced from 35 to 33
-Tombstone bounty increased from 75/100/125/150 to 125/150/175/200

Agreed

Skeleton King
-Vampiric Aura can now be toggled to make the lifesteal for heroes only

agreed

Items:

Cloak
-Magic resistance reduced from 20% to 15%

Agreed

Boots of speed
-Cost reduced from 450 to 400
-Movement speed bonus reduced by 5

Not needed

Bottle
-Cost reduced from 700 to 660
-Health regen per charge reduced from 110 to 90
-Mana regen per charge reduced from 70 to 60
-A charge now heals over 2.5 seconds instead of 3 seconds (total amount is still 90/60)

Seems fine with all the runes spawning

Hood of Defiance
-Hood of Defiance now has an active ability.
Creates a spell shield on your hero that absorbs up to 325 magical damage.
Duration: 12 seconds
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Mana cost: 75

Yes this is cool

Ring of Protection
-Cost reduced from 200 to 175
-Armor bonus reduced from 3 to 2

Agreed

Smoke of Deceit
-Cost reduced from 100 to 50

Agreed

Tranquil boots
-Tranquil Boots armor reduced from 4 to 3
-Movement speed bonus reduced by 5

Agreed

Observer and sentry wards
-Can be merged in 1 slot

Please make this!

These were all the official changes of 6.86

Now for some unofficial ones everyone been asking for, I’ll post them here for debate:

-Terrorblade sunder range reduced to 300
Disagree, Terrorblade has major issues with bad hp pool in early game, and without the -cd talent on sunder from dota 2, there is no need for a nerf here.

-Poor man shield block chance reduce from 100% to 60%
Disagree it´s just a stout shield then. Remove it entirely or reduce the damage block to 16 with 100%.

-Necro ultimate nerf to +15 seconds death timer on level 1 instead of +30s
Disagree, doesn´t really make sense to me. I think introducing Spirit vessel will be an indirect nerf to necro and all that is needed.

-Phoenix ray damage reduced
I agree that either the damage type should be made magical or reduce dmg by 20%.

-Arc warden magnetic field( ennemy units inside the field should not miss attacks) and arc’s ulti clone should give 100 gold bounty on death.
I think this is to big a nerf for arc, it should be either or.

-Sentry wards to be purchased 1 by 1 for 100g instead of 200g for 2

I really like this change.

-Dust of appearance price reduced to 100g instead of 160 or 180 idk what it is.

This is to much of a cost cut imo, 180 gold for two potential kills is a fine invenstment.

I agree with most of Peachtree’s suggestions:

I think weaver swarm should be 3/3/4/4 as suggested by vosje.

I don´t think Glimpse needs a nerf, it´s a niche skill that has a lot of requirements to be powerful:
1. It is main value lies when you are stronger than the opponents. As they have to “flee”
2. 1800 is out of vision, so you need to have wards down or otherwise vision of the target.

Earthshaker
– Nerf the mana cost from Enchant Totem from 20/30/40/50 to 35/40/45/50.
Reason: It costs no mana on the early levels and it can be spammed easily while still doing significant dmg.
Considering the popularity of ES in FBG i think this is a fine minor nerf.

Slardar
– Nerf and rescale Slardar Sprint from 20/28/36/44% to 16/25/34/43%.
Reason: Slardar sprint at lvl 1 gives 70 movespeed extra if you have boots. It can outrun everyone and as pos 4 it is way too strong. It gives 60 movespeed without boots at lvl 1. The movespeed at lvl 4 is alright though, hence the rescale. I don’t want to nerf Slardar sprint too hard but changing from 20% to 16% might not even be enough, but it’s a start.

I disagree that Slardar needs further nerfs than the aoe vision on amp dmg (which is a huge nerf).

Rikimaru
– Nerf Permanent Invisibility hp regen from 6/8/10/12 hp per sec while stealth to 4/6/8/10 hp per sec.
– Nerf Blink strike charges from 4/5/6 charges to 3/4/5 charges
Reason: The amount of blink strike charges riki has is too much imo. The hp regen nerf is because I feel like it’s too strong at the beginning.

I don´t see a need for Riki to be nerfed, it´s not a picked or strong hero in this meta.

Venomancer
– Nerf and rescale poison sting duration from 6/9/12/15 s to 6/8/10/12 s
– Nerf Venomeous gale tick damage from 10/40/70/100 to 0/30/60/90 damage over time
Reason: The poison sting duration is so fucking long that its very easy for venomancer to just 1 attack, ulti, then run away. His ulti is 16 sec so the poison sting almost covers the whole ulti duration. His plague wards also have poison sting for the same duratio and by nerfing the duration venomancer has a shorter time span to reapply this effect if he wants to keep sm1 poisoned.
As for his venomous gale tick damage… I think it’s too much damage and that’s why I suggest a small nerf for that. Note that Venomancer is a top pick in the fbg inhouse games.

I think the nerfs are to big here. I agree with the gale nerf, sting could get a slide nerf but I think 1 sec on each level is fine, as it nerfs the early game of veno.

Naga Siren
– Nerf and rescale Song of the Siren cooldown from 180/120/60 s to 180/130/80 s
Reason: It is very hard to gank a naga siren because his ulti cooldown is so ridiculously low at max lvl. I suggest a small rescale here because I dont want to nerf it too hard yet, however, I want to point out that a further nerf to maybe 180/140/100 s might be even better.
People don’t play naga siren often in FBG because they dont know how to play him correctly, however, there are some players that DO know how to play naga siren and they have shown that once naga has radiance and manta style he can be hard to find and with his low as fuck ulti cooldown he is also very hard to catch.

I disagree, Naga is an ignored hero on FBG for the most part.

Lina
– Nerf base movement speed from 295 to 285
Reason: He is fast as fuck with his passive. With boots and lvl 1 Fiery Soul he gets +35 movespeed if he casts 2 spells (which is often the case). In the early game this 35 movespeed matters a lot and makes it very hard to outrun a lina (as any mid hero, maybe except for pugna).
I was also thinking of suggesting to nerf his attack range a bit (cus 670 is quite a lot), but I think I want to see the movespeed nerf first, since lina is not really a top-pick in FBG.

I´m not sure Lina needs a nerf it does not seem like a popular pick on FBG. Also she itemize for ms a solution could be to convert %ms to flat ms bonus. I think that should be a general change though instead.

Ursa
– Nerf Enrage from 1.5/1.75/2x dmg multiplier to 1.5/1.65/1.8x dmg multiplier
Reason: Ursa is strong and I think he needs a slight nerf. This change also means that dmg items on ursa have more meaning.

I agree on nerfing Ursa, i´m not sure the dmg is the right place to do it. Imo a cd nerf on enrage or overpower would be better.

I think Spirit Vessel should be introduced. AA is the only counter to a lot of hp reg relient heroes, it should be possible to negate the hp reg in other ways. Also Urn is not utilized very much in FBG and this is a way to make the item more popular.

I would also suggest the introduction of Aether Lens, as a lot of Int heroes would see more play if they could cast spells from a further distance.

[DanishPride]

I also second a change to Atos so it´s a root rather than a slow. It´s a useless item as it is now and rarely sees play.

Also the sidelane raxes should be moved a bit closer to each other. I consider it a bug that Luna glaives does not bounce between the rax.

Change Elder Titan Aghanim’s (atm it is literally useless) to = after ancestral spirit returns gain 2 sec of magic immunity for each hero it walked through.

[DanishPride]

If possible change the aghas for EarthShaker, Sand King and Zeus.

For ES: People here don´t realise how trash his aghanim’s is. Change to enchant totem 1k cast range jump to the position with 0,75 fly time.

For Sand King: Again waste of gold aghs.. Change to 1400 cast range and add poison sting to all heroes hit by burrowstrike.

For Zeus: Now for real +180 ulti damage is bad for the cost it removes around 130 hp extra (this is shit). Introduce Nimbus cast range: Global
Radius: 500
Strike interval: 2.5
Duration: 50
Cooldown: 50
Mana cost: 275
Melee attacks to destroy: 4
Ranged attacks to destroy: 8
Non-hero attacks to destroy: 16
Gold bounty: 100
Notes: Casts regular Lightning Bolts on the closest enemy within its radius, based on the Bolt’s current level, applying all of its effects (damage, mini-stun, vision and true sight). The strike interval is affected by cooldown reductions.

Honestly w/o talents and lightning bolt stun duration at 1 sec. This is by no means imba, but it provides an otherways kinda dull one dimensional hero with an extra tool.

[Author]

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